How do you most accurately mark your center lines, wheelbase, and mounting holes prior to drilling?
I will run through my current process below, but I am interested to hear any suggestions or other ways to accurately layout these markings.
1. I have marked the center line on my mold both vertically and horizontally.
2. When a deck is finished pressing, I mark the center lines with the newly pressed deck still on the mold.
3. If I want to run a 14.5" WB, I measure 7.25" out in each direction from the horizontal center line and mark another line signaling where to place the inner holes of my mounting bracket.
4. Using a ruler made for drawing mounting holes, I line up the ruler with the vertical center line (nose to tail) and line up the inner holes on the ruler with the horizontal line drawn to mark the inner mounting holes. Once aligned I pencil in the mounting holes.
5. Using a steel punch, I make a small indent on each hole as a guide for the drill bit.
So far, this process has seemed to work well. Looking forward to hearing some additional thoughts and best practices.
Center Lines, Wheelbase, and Mounting Holes
Re: Center Lines, Wheelbase, and Mounting Holes
I make boards a few different ways, but your process is basically the same as my primary method (which utilizes the Roarockit vacuum-bagging method):
1) My mold has a horizontal centerline, along with horizontal "kick" lines. The "kick" lines run the width of the mold and indicate where the kicknose and kicktail begin (I do not have these or any equivalent lines on boards with no kicks, though).
2) If the mold is wider than the board, I mark the edges of the deck where all the lines are, and transfer those lines to the board. If the mold is slightly narrower, I do the same, but also measure the distance from the edge of the mold to the outside of the deck, and mark that distance on the top of the deck on the kick lines. (This allows me to see where the mold's edges are on the deck.) From there, I mark the centerpoint of the mold on each kick line and connect those points with a vertical line. That line runs the length of the board and indicates where the middle of the board is.
3) Using a wheelbase template I laser cut, I line it up on my horizontal and vertical centerlines. It has features to mark wheelbases from about 12" up to 16" in half-inch increments. When longer, or if the wheelbase isn't a multiple of 0.5", I manually measure half the wheelbase from the centerline, creating a small horizontal line, just wide enough to pass through my wheelbase template, so I can see where to position it along my vertical centerline.
4) I mark the hole centers in the exact center of the template's holes, then use just a hammer and nail or screw to make a small indentation to guide the bit in (this actually made a huge difference in improving the accuracy of the holes!)
Now, since I have access to a large enough laser, I'm beginning to use that to mark the entire board profile. First, I lay some scrap in the bed of the laser, and engrave a rectangle the size of my mold. That file I used to engrave has both a rectangle and board profile, but I choose to only run the rectangle. Then, I adjust the z-height, and put the mold and board directly on the rectangle I engraved. I run the laser with just the profile of the board this time, and it marks everything extremely precisely. The hardest part is making sure the mold is properly positioned in the laser bed, so that the profile gets drawn in exactly the right spot. Also, the truck holes are slightly smaller in the file used for this (like, 1/16" diameter), and the burnt wood creates an indentation to guide the drill bit in.
Lastly, I've heard some people will create the mounting holes in their molds and insert dowels to make an impression on the deck during pressing. I haven't tried this myself yet, though, but I like the idea.
1) My mold has a horizontal centerline, along with horizontal "kick" lines. The "kick" lines run the width of the mold and indicate where the kicknose and kicktail begin (I do not have these or any equivalent lines on boards with no kicks, though).
2) If the mold is wider than the board, I mark the edges of the deck where all the lines are, and transfer those lines to the board. If the mold is slightly narrower, I do the same, but also measure the distance from the edge of the mold to the outside of the deck, and mark that distance on the top of the deck on the kick lines. (This allows me to see where the mold's edges are on the deck.) From there, I mark the centerpoint of the mold on each kick line and connect those points with a vertical line. That line runs the length of the board and indicates where the middle of the board is.
3) Using a wheelbase template I laser cut, I line it up on my horizontal and vertical centerlines. It has features to mark wheelbases from about 12" up to 16" in half-inch increments. When longer, or if the wheelbase isn't a multiple of 0.5", I manually measure half the wheelbase from the centerline, creating a small horizontal line, just wide enough to pass through my wheelbase template, so I can see where to position it along my vertical centerline.
4) I mark the hole centers in the exact center of the template's holes, then use just a hammer and nail or screw to make a small indentation to guide the bit in (this actually made a huge difference in improving the accuracy of the holes!)
Now, since I have access to a large enough laser, I'm beginning to use that to mark the entire board profile. First, I lay some scrap in the bed of the laser, and engrave a rectangle the size of my mold. That file I used to engrave has both a rectangle and board profile, but I choose to only run the rectangle. Then, I adjust the z-height, and put the mold and board directly on the rectangle I engraved. I run the laser with just the profile of the board this time, and it marks everything extremely precisely. The hardest part is making sure the mold is properly positioned in the laser bed, so that the profile gets drawn in exactly the right spot. Also, the truck holes are slightly smaller in the file used for this (like, 1/16" diameter), and the burnt wood creates an indentation to guide the drill bit in.
Lastly, I've heard some people will create the mounting holes in their molds and insert dowels to make an impression on the deck during pressing. I haven't tried this myself yet, though, but I like the idea.
Re: Center Lines, Wheelbase, and Mounting Holes
Thanks for the in depth response - I like how you also mark the kick line to show where the kicktail begins. That would really help when dialing in the nose / tail length as well as the WB.
How to you find your kick line? I know there is some discrepancy as to where the kicktail should really start in order to maximize pop.
Also, jealous of your laser cutter - sounds awesome.
How to you find your kick line? I know there is some discrepancy as to where the kicktail should really start in order to maximize pop.
Also, jealous of your laser cutter - sounds awesome.
Re: Center Lines, Wheelbase, and Mounting Holes
I define the kickline on the mold, and it's directly related to the wheelbase. My kickline is usually 1" from the center of the outermost mounting holes, which usually provides about "2 fingers" of flat (which is what Paul Schmitt recommends, and I've found feels good, too). So, my kick-to-kick distance is usually my wheelbase + (2 x 2.125") + (2 x 1"). The image below might help clarify it (see the 1" referenced in the top view).
As far as maximizing pop, I usually adjust other parameters for this, while keeping the outer mounting hole to kick line distance the same - I adjust kick angle, kick radius, truck height, risers, tail length, and wheel height.
As far as maximizing pop, I usually adjust other parameters for this, while keeping the outer mounting hole to kick line distance the same - I adjust kick angle, kick radius, truck height, risers, tail length, and wheel height.
Re: Center Lines, Wheelbase, and Mounting Holes
Beau,
My apologies for the delay on this response.
Thanks for the input and info graphic - all really useful information. I too have been going with the 2 finger of flat method as well as it seems to function the best. I am not sure if you caught Professor Schmitts most recent interview on the 9 Club, but its 3+ hours of amazing stories and tips. I highly recommend giving it a listen if you haven't checked it out yet.
I am in the midst of designing my own version of a wheelbase ruler / template in order to properly and most precisely mark mounting holes by hand. I plan on tooling a prototype out of wood within the next couple months and getting it milled out of steel when finalized.
I will keep you in the loop as I progress.
My apologies for the delay on this response.
Thanks for the input and info graphic - all really useful information. I too have been going with the 2 finger of flat method as well as it seems to function the best. I am not sure if you caught Professor Schmitts most recent interview on the 9 Club, but its 3+ hours of amazing stories and tips. I highly recommend giving it a listen if you haven't checked it out yet.
I am in the midst of designing my own version of a wheelbase ruler / template in order to properly and most precisely mark mounting holes by hand. I plan on tooling a prototype out of wood within the next couple months and getting it milled out of steel when finalized.
I will keep you in the loop as I progress.
Re: Center Lines, Wheelbase, and Mounting Holes
Any tips or downsides to working with shorter kick gaps? as well as having mismatching ones, meaning the nose and tail's have different ones.
Like do I have to design the mold a certain way, or how does the math change? Thanks.
Like do I have to design the mold a certain way, or how does the math change? Thanks.
Re: Center Lines, Wheelbase, and Mounting Holes
With shorter kick gaps, the main thing you really need to watch for from a design perspective is the location of the truck baseplate and watch that it doesn't extend too much into the kick (which it will if the kick gap is too small). When designing a mold, your intended wheelbase and kick gaps affect the "kick to kick" distance (which is (wheelbase) + (2 x 2.125") + (nose kick gap) + (tail kick gap)) (PS: the 2.125" is the bolt pattern length).
For example, if you have a 14" wheelbase and 1" symmetrical kick gap, the kick to kick distance is 20.25", and the center of your wheelbase matches the center of the kick to kick distance; if you have a 14" wheelbase and a 0.75" tail kick gap and 1" nose kick gap, the kick to kick distance will be 20" and the center of your wheelbase will be shifted closer to the tail instead of matching the center of the kick to kick distance.
For example, if you have a 14" wheelbase and 1" symmetrical kick gap, the kick to kick distance is 20.25", and the center of your wheelbase matches the center of the kick to kick distance; if you have a 14" wheelbase and a 0.75" tail kick gap and 1" nose kick gap, the kick to kick distance will be 20" and the center of your wheelbase will be shifted closer to the tail instead of matching the center of the kick to kick distance.